PIML 96061303 / Forwarded to Patriot Information Mailing List: [A selection of four messages on the BATF's latest attempt to raise their budget.] PIML ================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:16:49 -0400 From: freematt@coil.com (Matthew Gaylor) Subject: Reno Assistant committed to exceed Dept. of Justice's legal authority? From: gmcgath@mv.mv.com (Gary McGath) Subject: DoJ finding more "suicide cults"? According to an Associated Press article in Monday's news, "Federal investigators are committed to finding the people responsible for a rash of fires at black Southern churches even if that means giving church members lie-detector tests and searching church records, a top Justice Department official said yesterday." If the notion that a burning church should be blamed on the people in it sounds familiar, the fact that Attorney General Reno is involved is probably of little comfort. "Reno told the pastors about the Church Arson Task Force, a joint effort of the Treasury and Justice departments, which will report to President Clinton about the status of the church fire investigations." The BATF has been involved in the investigations of 30 church fires since January 1995. Rev. Mac Charlie Jones of the National Council of Churches has complained that investigators have required lie-detector tests, issued subpoenas for church records and told congregations that everyone is a suspect. He referred to "the sense of intimidation that they [pastors] feel from investigators... the victims have also become the suspects." Particularly ominous is the statement of Deval Patrick, assistant attorney general for civil rights, on Cnn's "Late Edition": "Our responsibility is to solve these crimes, and we are determined to do that. That includes whatever investigative tools are at our disposal and then some." This suggests that Patrick considers the DoJ committed to exceed its legal authority. Gary McGath gmcgath@mv.mv.com http://www.mv.com/users/gmcgath **************************************************************************** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt@coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor,1933 E. Dublin-Granville Rd.,#176, Columbus, OH 43229 **************************************************************************** ================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 08:27:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Patricia Neill Subject: L&J: Hypocrisy in Action: Clinton and the Church Burnings Reply-To: liberty-and-justice@pobox.com Hypocrisy in Action: Clinton and the Church Burnings by Patricia Neill "President Clinton, saying there is no evidence of a national conspiracy in the burning of 30 black churches in the South, vowed today to end the racially motivated attacks as quickly as possible. "It's hard to think of a more depraved act of violence than the destruction of a place of worship," Clinton said in his weekly radio address." Whoever is burning Southern black churches is certainly depraved, let there be no doubt about that. However, at this moment, we simply don't know who is doing this or why. What we do know is that President Clinton and Attorney General Janet Reno burned down a church -- while the congregation was still inside. A headline in the mainstream media such as "Reno Vows Vigorous Hunt for Church Arsonists" is terribly ironic, as well as breathtakingly hypocritical. That church, of course, was Mount Carmel, located just outside of Waco, Texas. Members of that church were black, white, Asian, and Mexican-American; they were many races, of many nationalities. Mainstream media reports claimed that the Branch Davidians were religious extremists, gun-running, drug-dealing child abusers. Of course, none of that was true. The guns were legal, there were no drugs, there was no child abuse, nothing. Have we yet heard an apology from the mainstream media for their lies, distortions, or even their craven, cowardly manner of getting all their "news" directly from ATF and FBI handouts? Of course not. It was business as usual. These same pudits are now pontificating about these despicable new church burnings. This is as smugly hypocritical as Clinton's and Reno's proclamations. The media was complicit in that church burning in Waco, Texas in 1993. Mount Carmel was a church, a Christian church, although of a minority sect. At Mount Carmel they studied the Bible and listened to sermons. They believed in Jesus Christ, and that He would come again. David Koresh was writing a manuscript concerning the Book of Revelations, a study of the seven seals. He never got to finish his manuscript. He was interrupted by the burning of his church. After a sustained attack and siege, the ATF and FBI, under orders from Clinton and Reno, finally used tanks against the Mount Carmel church. These tanks lobbed highly flammable CS gas, which is banned from use in war with our enemies, into the church. The CS gas caught fire, burning down the church, and burning most of the congregation of men, women and seventeen children to death. In a Sunday, June 9 article, Reuters says that "some 200 Justice and Treasury department agents were involved in the investigations" of the new rash of church burnings. These "Justice and Treasury" agents are, of course, FBI and ATF, who have experience with church burning, having performed one themselves back in 1993. "The Clinton administration will 'devote whatever resources are necessary' to their search for the arsonists of the black churches." And that is as it should be. We would all like to see a quick end to this. And then Clinton and Reno should resign their offices of honor and trust, since they are also guilty of torching a church. With the congregation inside. "It's hard to think of a more depraved act of violence than the destruction of a place of worship." Indeed. And it's hard to think of anything more thoroughly hypocritical Clinton could say than this. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Unsub info - send to majordomo@pobox.com with "unsubscribe liberty-and-justice" in the body (not the subj) of the msg. Listowner: Mike Goldman ================================================================== Date: 12 Jun 96 11:12:49 EDT From: Mike Johnson <102052.3716@CompuServe.COM> Subject: MJN:Church burnings Further information supporting the claim that the burnings of churches that has been taking place in the south are split almost 50-50 between black churches and white churches. The press and the Clinton administration are focusing attention almost exclusively on the *black* churches that have been burned. One wonders if this means that Clinton et al think that burning *white* churches is ok? Or is this simply yet another cynical ploy to make political capital when and where it can be found? By turning a problem that is affecting *all* the Christians in the south into a problem that is affecting only black Christians. I mean, let's face it, the idea that the KKK must be responsible for these heinous deeds looks a lot less likely when one considers that an equal number of white and black churches have been burned. Or, given that one cannot usually tell a "black" church from a "white" church unless one first observes the members of the congregation, could this not simply be an indication that the churches are being burned by people who either do not know or do not care about the distinction? - Mike/North Central Florida Regional Militia It is safe to assume that any traffic going to or from this address is being recorded, stored and analyzed somewhere by government employees. Any other assumption is *not* *safe*. 10-Jun-96 19:48:49 Sb: #Black&White ChurchesBurn Fm: Brenda C. Jinkins 70762,154 On Ken Hamblin's radio show today today, he quoted an AP story which stated that there have been 51 church fires since January 1995. Twenty-six were in black churches, and twenty-five were in white churches. This is another "convenient" outbreak of racism/militia plots for Bill Clinton don't you think? Living here in the South, I can tell you that there are churches of all types on every corner, rural and city. This outbreak needs to be measured by percent of churches relative to the whole and compared with a like time period. There are probably has many underlying causes, but Hamblin for one was asking "cui bono". DON'T TREAD ON ME- Brenda/ Olive Branch MS ================================================================== Date: 12 Jun 96 18:26:54 EDT From: Mike Johnson <102052.3716@CompuServe.COM> Subject: FTW: Militia Reps Talk o Commentary by Kevin on useful things for the militia to do. - Mike/North Central Florida Regional Militia It is safe to assume that any traffic going to or from this address is being recorded, stored and analyzed somewhere by government employees. Any other assumption is *not* *safe*. 12-Jun-96 16:20 EDT Sb: FTW: Militia Reps Talk of Protecting Churches Fm: Kevin McGehee [102117,2606] ***From the Top of the World*** by KEVIN McGEHEE (Editor of "The Armed Genius") North Pole, Alaska Permission granted to anyone wishing to forward, redistribute, or broadcast this article, provided its source is properly acknowledged. Thank you. ================================================================ (Old news to some of you, but new to others...) MILITIAS MAY MOBILIZE TO PROTECT CHURCHES AGAINST ARSONISTS In response to Big Media hype about an alleged national (and presumably "right-wing") conspiracy to torch Southern churches ministering to African-American congregations, a discussion has begun among members of the militia movement about having militia members volunteer to watch over churches to deter arsonists, and to aid those congregations that have already lost their houses of worship. (A message distributed on the Internet putting forth this idea is appended to this essay.) The hyperbole from the federal government, Big Media, and the "anti-intolerance" lobby has focused on the instances where churches serving the black community in the South were targeted by arsonists (although the truth seems to be that at least as many white-congregation churches have also been burned in the region), and has usually been accompanied by innuendo that "militia types," whom Big Media would have America equate with the Ku Klux Klan, are responsible. The talk of offering to help arson victims, and try to prevent additional acts, was partly inspired by this, and by the suspicion among some that the arsons might be the work of anti-militia provocateurs. One individual, in commenting on the idea, noted that states have called upon the militia in the past to counter the KKK -- suggesting that even in the event of a racist conspiracy, militia intervention would be in keeping with precedent. ================================================================ *The following is the text of an Internet message promoting the idea of using militia groups to counter future arson attempts at Southern churches: I can think of no better way to raise the image of the militia movement in the eyes of the general public than for the key representatives of that movement to inform the ministries in the Black community of their resolve to watch out for, and if possible to protect, the Black churches against whoever might be responsible for the fires; to offer to help to rebuild the churches already torched; and to solicit new-militia recruits from among America's Black citizenry in order to assist in this manpower intensive guard duty and rebuilding. Militia members need to keep their eyes open and their ears tuned to the possibility of some bad apples. Perhaps militia people, including the newly recruited black militiamen, might start sleeping armed in the threatened churches. And congregations temporarily dispossessed of church buildings could be invited to worship with their militiamen neighbors of all races. Just a thought... The media and the Clinton Administration have been demonizing the militias as racist. Here's the chance to scotch that image and to build general public support for the movement. The militias could also volunteer to help the "overworked" police in the latter's thus-far-unsuccessful attempt to protect the Black churches in menaced areas. Donald Silberger ================================================================== * Patriot Information Mailing List * http://constitution.famguardian.org/piml/piml.htm * A service to help inform those who have an active interest in * returning our federal and state governments to limited, * constitutional government * Send messages for consideration and possible posting to * butterb@sagenet.net (Bill Utterback). * To subscribe or unsubscribe, send message with subject line * "subscribe patriot" or "unsubscribe patriot" * Forwarded messages sent on this mailing list are NOT verified. * See World's Smallest Political Quiz: www.self-gov.org/quiz.html * Libertarian is to LIBERTY as librarian is to library (DePena) * PIML grants permission to copy and repost this message * in its entirety with headers and trailers left intact.